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Bradd Waller | Jul 7, 2014, 08:20 pm |
I'm wanting to play a samurai, specifically a sword saint. I'm still fairly new to PFS. I'm continually hearing that samurai aren't good or easy to make viable. I'm building him for PFS so using the 20 point buy. I'm wanting to use a katana and have power attack and the step up feats. What do I need to do to make this guy fun and effective? Thanks for all the advice ahead of time.
Arachnofiend | Jul 7, 2014, 08:35 pm |
A Ronin Samurai can reroll a failed will save, that alone makes it superior to multiple (well, two) core classes.
The problem with the Sword Saint is that Iaijustu Strike is pretty useless until you can use it as a standard action. Otherwise the Challenge and Ronin abilities are solid enough to be decent... no more than that, but you're at least sturdier than a Fighter.
Shadowkire | Jul 7, 2014, 08:37 pm |
Do you want the samurai class features, or the trappings(Katana, Wakazashi, etc.)?
if it is the latter try asking your GM if you can be a fighter that starts with asian exotic weapons as martial weapons and many regular martial weapons(longsword, greatsword, etc.) as exotic.
Deadbeat Doom | Jul 7, 2014, 08:40 pm |
A Samurai, particularly of the Ronin order, is really good at survivability but not so great at damage. They aren't anything special for the first several levels, but eventually you can shrug off most will and fort saves, critical hits, and the worst of the negative conditions (staggered, stunned, nauseated, etc.); not to mention the ability to remain fighting at negative HP...
Basically, they make for really good tanks but they will never get better than middle-of-the-pack in terms of damage output. If you can make a build focused on keeping the enemy's attention on you (step up chain, antagonize, trip weapons, etc.), you should have a fun time with it.
Umbranus | Jul 8, 2014, 01:49 am |
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I do not know if that works in PFS (don't know what's legal and it ignores one sentence of the fluff)
Buy a combat scabbard (not a sharpened one). That way, at the start of combat you can attack mooks with your sheathed sword and still use Iaijutsu Strike on the main foe once you reach him.
After that hold the scabbard in your off-hand and get a shield bonus to AC via the improvised defence trait.
Fluff to be ignored:
Sword saints hail from lands where samurai are prevalent, and are often ronin who wander the world seeking new challenges to perfect their intricate style of swordplay called iaijutsu. The following benefits apply only when a sword saint is using a sword and carrying nothing in his other hand.
.
It looks like a rule but is written in italic that normally indicates fluff. But that only applies to the second part. Attacking with the sheathed sword until you want to do the Iaijutsu Strike should definitely work.
BadBird | Jul 8, 2014, 02:36 am |
Flavor-wise, a level of Master of Many Styles monk for Crane 1 and 3 plus Crane 2 by level 7 seems ideal for a master of sword technique, fluidly changing up his grip and cutting down foes who fail to get through his considerable defenses. If your GM is down with weapons along the line of the Blade of the Sword Saint, then a Samurai/Sohei who flurries with such a weapon could be pretty cool too.
A Paladin/Sohei of Shizuru could also potentially fit the 'sword saint' concept really well, picking up Crusader's Flurry: Katana by level 5 and using a mithral medium armor.
Secret Wizard | Jul 8, 2014, 03:23 am |
Umbranus wrote:
I do not know if that works in PFS (don't know what's legal and it ignores one sentence of the fluff)
Buy a combat scabbard (not a sharpened one). That way, at the start of combat you can attack mooks with your sheathed sword and still use Iaijutsu Strike on the main foe once you reach him.
After that hold the scabbard in your off-hand and get a shield bonus to AC via the improvised defence trait.** spoiler omitted **.
It looks like a rule but is written in italic that normally indicates fluff. But that only applies to the second part. Attacking with the sheathed sword until you want to do the Iaijutsu Strike should definitely work.
Anyone who assumes the Sword Saint isn't holding his scabbard on his offhand after an Iaijitsu Strike seriously needs to watch more samurai films.
BadBird | Jul 8, 2014, 04:59 pm |
Secret Wizard wrote:
Anyone who assumes the Sword Saint isn't holding his scabbard on his offhand after an Iaijitsu Strike seriously needs to watch more samurai films.
Indeed, the hand on the scabbard is for 1.nudging the blade out of the scabbard with a thumb against the tsuba to gently get it past its resistance point, and 2.to prevent yanking the scabbard right out of its place when striking, because its attached loosely to the body.
The question is: by PF rules, are you 'carrying' the scabbard in your 'offhand' if its still attached to your body and you were just holding it in place during the strike? I would guess no.
insaneogeddon | Jul 8, 2014, 05:56 pm |
Bradd Waller wrote:
I'm wanting to play a samurai, specifically a sword saint. I'm still fairly new to PFS. I'm continually hearing that samurai aren't good or easy to make viable. I'm building him for PFS so using the 20 point buy. I'm wanting to use a katana and have power attack and the step up feats. What do I need to do to make this guy fun and effective? Thanks for all the advice ahead of time.
Don't believe them who hate on the noble and awesome manliness that is the samurai they repeat blurb and have not played one or apparently think.. Same people also say how amazing paladin damage is ironically.
No other melee gets:
Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Specialization (not to mention crit feats and penetrating strike) with your chosen weapon
AND
Challenge = + level to all damage.
Add to this
You get a good 18-20 crit weapon (that has an extra +2 to confirm roles as its 'deadly' and an extra +2 to confirm from weapon expertse to really boost the 'math' damage).
The bonuses from sword saint (debuff + extra damage on 1st attacks)
you are top tier in the DPR olympics (above falcion fred) but FAR better on standard actions and FAR more robust and surviveable.
I recommend dwarf:
1. easy move in armour
2. racial favored class makes challege level x 1.5 vs ANYTHING
3. +2 all needed saves (+4 with strong soul feat)
4.sky sentinel alt racial for +2 ac, perception and +1 hit vs most high level things
5. the dwarf feat 'spell shatter' to cut through spells when wielding your chosen weapon
1 Toughness, 3. Weapon Focus, 5 Strong Soul, 6B Specialization gets you started - survivable from 1st with some experiment time to choose a weapon then immune to spells when they get problematic etc etc
No pretty boy goody 2 shoe chr spend or behavioral restrictions and a 'smite' thats level x 1.5 vs EVERYTHING and specialization that works 24/7 + condition removal, crit immunity etc class features - and none reliant on bending over as some gods alter boy.
If ronin at 15th level buy a 'back up' vorpal weapon you can quick draw and auto kill 1x per day things that really bother you like paladins that after 15 levels of worship now need adult dipers!
'In addition, once per day, the ronin can treat any one d20 roll as if the result were a natural 20'
PS
Multi-classing is gaining popularity but 'ITS A TRAP'.
LoneKnave | Jul 8, 2014, 06:16 pm |
Order of the flame. You can make a challenge to literally everyone in the combat and get more damage bonus from it too. Yeah, it tanks your AC, but you get many, many rerolls and can use your iaijutsu strike many many times (terrifying/deafening all dem fools standing around).
Seriously though, Iaijutsu strike should have never been a Full round action. It works perfectly well as a standard action which reads something like: "As a single standard action, a samurai can draw his sheathed weapon and attack the target of his challenge, dealing bonus damage" or something. The way it is is a travesty and in no way, shape, or form does it make up for the utility and raw power that is a mount.
BigNorseWolf | Jul 8, 2014, 09:38 pm |
Do not make a sword saint.
Ijiatsu strike sounds cool, but actually getting it off makes a full round sneak attack look like a sure thing. Its frustratingly out of reach.
The problem with samurai is that a lot of dungeons aren't mount friendly unless you're a small samurai. Even without the mount you can still be pretty viable with a high strength and two handed weapon.
Any eastern flavored character should try to play the quest for perfection series before you hit level 6. This goes doubly for you, trust me.
EsperMagic | Jul 8, 2014, 09:50 pm |
Eh for as useless as mounts are to a samurai the Iaijitsu at least offers some interesting combat options. I mean if you want a horse then buy one. But trying to do mounted combat..bleh. Otherwise Samurai are pretty sweet. They may not have the feat selection of fighters but their freebies and their class abilities make up for it.
Domestichauscat | Jul 8, 2014, 10:45 pm |
Actually they have proficiency in katanas already, so they already can use them one handed I think. Any fighter can use a katana two handed, it's pretty much the same as the bastard sword ruling.
If your going iajutsu, I would recommend getting either gauntlets or take a level in monk. This way, on your first attack you charge in and punch that sucker good. Then on your second turn if you're still next to him, do the iajutsu strike. This allows you to do something on your first turn without ruining your opportunity for an iajutsu. I've actually wanted to make a character like this for awhile, but hey life gets in the way of things.
BadBird | Jul 8, 2014, 11:29 pm |
1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Do not make a sword saint.
I really hate what they did for/to the 'sword saint'. Arguably the most revered and awe-inducing bladed warrior ideograph in Japanese tradition and ... oh look, he knows a fairly basic cut-from-the-scabbard-trick, and its implemented as a really questionable ability. Joy.
EsperMagic | Jul 9, 2014, 07:45 am |
Since you did ask for help building one I guess I'll give you a stat block I normally use for mine.
Human Samurai
Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Cha: 14
I tend to enjoy the more Cha-based Orders(co*ckatrice/Flame), but if you pick one that doesn't need cha feel free to adjust.
Proley | Jul 9, 2014, 08:12 am |
I had a hobgoblin Sword saint who died too young, but I gave him an Earth Breaker and Katana combination. He'd wade into the middle of combat and enjoy his high survivablity while cutting down mooks with the Earthbreaker, combat reflexes, and lunge if required to ensure he threatened EVERYONE. Once a path was clear, he'd approach the big bad, drop the hammer, Iajutsu strike.
If there were no mooks, he'd just go straight for the iajutsu strike and go toe-to-toe.
Never underestimate the ability to shrug off crippling effects and keep fighting despite being nearly dead. When people say he's not a high-damage dealer, it's largely because he's not a glass cannon. He won't put out 2000 damage in a round like an Archer Inquisitor, but he'll survive much, much, longer in most situations.
Ivarrwolfsong | Jul 17, 2014, 02:52 pm |
I've heard people say you can't attack the target before you iajutsu. The way I've seen it played is that you can't attack him once he's been challenged.
A sword saint can perform a lightning quick iaijutsu strike against the target of his challenge to inflict devastating wounds while drawing his sword. After the sword saint has challenged a foe but before he has attacked the target of his challenge , he may choose to use his iaijutsu strike as a full-round action, making an attack roll with his weapon as normal. In order to use this ability, the sword saint’s weapon must be sheathed at the start of his turn.
The reasoning being: the enemy is not the target of your challenge until you challenge him.
Some will say that's BS, others will say it's the exact reading of the rules. Hash it out with your GM.
Even in PFS, I could see it ruled either way.
If he rules in favor of the reasoning above, start with a reach weapon and let them step to you. Once they step in, free action drop the reach weapon, swift challenge and iajutsu him
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